Curse

Longasc · Oct 23, 2007, 07:32 AM // 07:32

So far my Paragon Heroes end up always as spear chuckers. My main char is a Necro, and I usually use only one Paragon.

So I make Hayda a spearchucking Paragon with a command shield, Aggressive Refrain, Focused Anger, Anthem of Flame, something for Deep Wound and "Go for the Eyes" usually.

But how about a motivation build for Morgahn? Or would a second command based Paragon be better?

I cannot think of a good Motivation build, what rune setup would you recommend? Or a hybrid with a bit Motivation?

I ask for your build suggestions for both Hayda and Morgahn. Ideally for both as a team or for different things, so that I can cover a wide range of options with the two. Thank you!

Utaku · Oct 23, 2007, 09:08 AM // 09:08

I really like dual command heroes on my physical characters.
A pair of fall back!, go for the eyes, stand your ground on one, they're on fire on the second; some spear attacks.
Basically it's pve on easy mode, with lots of crits, damage received is cut, you run from mob to mob at +33%.. I like !

GloryFox · Oct 23, 2007, 04:34 PM // 16:34

These builds are after the AR and GFTE nerfs and work in HM I've drooped AR from my builds as it makes Hard Mode unbearable. (PvP nerfs to PvE FTL)

My Paragon (Solar Glory)

Anthem of Envy
Burning Refrain
I am the Strongest
Finnish Him (can be changed with TNTF but I tend to go pure damage)
Signet of Return
Leaders Comfort
Blazing Finale
Ursan Blessing

OQCjUumI6SXYoYxkzkybwYnYGlA

Hayda (Command Paragon)
10+1+1 Spear Mastery 12
11+1 Command 12
10+1 Leadership 11

Soldiers Fury
Blazing Spear
GFTE
Anthem of Envy
Anthem of Weariness
Stand Your Ground
Leaders Comfort
Flesh of My Flesh

OQijUqmLqOtbFsF+CH+rxw4LGA

Morgan (Motivation)
Spear 8+1
Leadership 10+1
Motivation 12+1+3

Chorus of Restoration
Aria of Restoration
Ballad of Restoration
Song of Restoration (Elite)
Barbed Spear
Mending Refrain
Signet of Synergy
Finale of Restoration

OQCjUinMqOdYPMHedDkVxx4UMA

I don't give Morgan a res because I want him doing his job as a Motivator, nothing else. This motivation build works wonders in a H&H enviroment alongside your 2 monk henchman options.

My Minion Master Livia is also a secondary Paragon and uses Motivation to aid in her Heals and Energy. I'll keep her build a trade secret.

Novalon · Oct 26, 2007, 02:27 AM // 02:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by GloryFox

I'll keep her build a trade secret.

Then don't post about it at all. Furthermore, whether you post a build or not, it's still likely to be nerfed.

Trx · Oct 26, 2007, 05:30 PM // 17:30

I've been using the following combo for a while though I often change some skills around depending on the area I'm in:

Morgahn:

Spear: 11+2+1
Command: 10+2
Leadership: 9+1

[skill]Vicious Attack[/skill][skill]Barbed Spear[/skill][skill]Stunning Strike[/skill][skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill]

[skill]Epidemic[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

He's mainly there for ranged damage and condition applying/spreading. Its aoe deepwound, bleeding, dazed, weakness and good ranged damage, pretty nice.

Hayda:

Spear: 8+1
Motivation: 11+3+1
Leadership: 9+1
Inspiration: 8

[skill]Signet of Synergy[/skill][skill]Finale of Restoration[/skill][skill]Mending Refrain[/skill][skill]Purifying Finale[/skill][skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill][skill]Song of Purification[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Mantra of Inscriptions[/skill]

I use Hayda to spread the echo's around and heal a bit. I dont really believe in the 15-20 sec recharge group heal chants like Song of Restoration since its basicly a very crappy Light of Deliverance but to each his own. I added Purifying Finale since the nerf to AR which works pretty good. The first 3 skills are good sustained healing, not good for burst damage but thats what the hench monks are for. I raised spear to 9 because I think the extra auto attack damage makes up for the few points spend compared to spear at 0. Like Gloryfox no rez for the motivation paragon since I want her healing not rezzing mid battle.

Livia:

Blood Magic: 12+2+1
Soul Reaping: 12+1

[skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Rend Enchantments[/skill][skill]Well of Blood[/skill][skill]Empathic Removal[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill]

Double adrenaline for the whole team, and Orders adds alot of damage on a full psysical damage team (I usually bring 2 hench monk 2 physical damage henchies). 2 hex removal skills is nice since shutdown hexes are no fun. In areas where there is alot of enchant stripping you can replace Masochism for Signet of Lost Souls, though the group enchants usually act as a cover enchant just fine.

Not really important because you play a necro yourself but I play:

[skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill]

[skill]Focused Anger[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill]

[skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

As you can see all the AL bonus I need comes from "Save Yourselves!". You could add "Stand Your Ground!" on Morghan to somewhat make up for not having that.

There's lots of variations you can do with a setup like this but this is what works well for me. With only 3 squishies (who have +100AL most of the time lol) in the team and plenty of healing/condition removal its a solid setup that works well except in areas with lots of blocking stances but you could adjust the builds for those areas. And in Prophecies you just take Little Thom

.

Warskull · Oct 30, 2007, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Para Hero 1
12+1+1 Spear
11+1 Leadership
6+1 Command

Viscous Attack (or Spear of Lightning)
Blazing Spear
Wild Throw
Defensive Anthem
Anthem of Flame
Go for the Eyes
Flail
Signet of Return

Para Hero 2
11+2+1 Spear
11+1 Leadership
8 Tactics

Viscous Attack (or Spear of Lightning)
Blazing Spear
Wild Throw
Defensive Anthem
Shields Up
Watch Yourself
Flail
Signet of Return

Simple, brutal, effective. The raw power of this combo is not to be trifled with. They output good damage and significantly enhance defense. Anthem of flame can be swapped for Disrupting Anthem or Anthem of Weakness. Shields up can be swapped similarly in areas without ranged monsters (in areas with a lot of ranged monsters it is stupid good.)

I would avoid most of the other paragon builds posted so far.

As for motivation, screw it. You can have better defense with tactics or defensive anthem.

Omniclasm · Oct 30, 2007, 03:12 AM // 03:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trx

I've been using the following combo for a while though I often change some skills around depending on the area I'm in:

Morgahn:

Spear: 11+2+1
Command: 10+2
Leadership: 9+1

[skill]Vicious Attack[/skill][skill]Barbed Spear[/skill][skill]Stunning Strike[/skill][skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill]

[skill]Epidemic[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

He's mainly there for ranged damage and condition applying/spreading. Its aoe deepwound, bleeding, dazed, weakness and good ranged damage, pretty nice.

Hayda:

Spear: 8+1
Motivation: 11+3+1
Leadership: 9+1
Inspiration: 8

[skill]Signet of Synergy[/skill][skill]Finale of Restoration[/skill][skill]Mending Refrain[/skill][skill]Purifying Finale[/skill][skill]"Go For The Eyes!"[/skill][skill]Song of Purification[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Mantra of Inscriptions[/skill]

I use Hayda to spread the echo's around and heal a bit. I dont really believe in the 15-20 sec recharge group heal chants like Song of Restoration since its basicly a very crappy Light of Deliverance but to each his own. I added Purifying Finale since the nerf to AR which works pretty good. The first 3 skills are good sustained healing, not good for burst damage but thats what the hench monks are for. I raised spear to 9 because I think the extra auto attack damage makes up for the few points spend compared to spear at 0. Like Gloryfox no rez for the motivation paragon since I want her healing not rezzing mid battle.

Livia:

Blood Magic: 12+2+1
Soul Reaping: 12+1

[skill]Order of Pain[/skill][skill]Dark Fury[/skill][skill]Rend Enchantments[/skill][skill]Well of Blood[/skill][skill]Empathic Removal[/skill][skill]Remove Hex[/skill][skill]Blood Ritual[/skill]

Double adrenaline for the whole team, and Orders adds alot of damage on a full psysical damage team (I usually bring 2 hench monk 2 physical damage henchies). 2 hex removal skills is nice since shutdown hexes are no fun. In areas where there is alot of enchant stripping you can replace Masochism for Signet of Lost Souls, though the group enchants usually act as a cover enchant just fine.

Not really important because you play a necro yourself but I play:

[skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill]

[skill]Focused Anger[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill]

[skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

As you can see all the AL bonus I need comes from "Save Yourselves!". You could add "Stand Your Ground!" on Morghan to somewhat make up for not having that.

There's lots of variations you can do with a setup like this but this is what works well for me. With only 3 squishies (who have +100AL most of the time lol) in the team and plenty of healing/condition removal its a solid setup that works well except in areas with lots of blocking stances but you could adjust the builds for those areas. And in Prophecies you just take Little Thom

.

That Hayda build is questionable. The necromancer build could probably use a rehaul for more efficiency, but it is an ok support type character.

Trx · Oct 31, 2007, 01:01 AM // 01:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Omniclasm

That Hayda build is questionable. The necromancer build could probably use a rehaul for more efficiency, but it is an ok support type character.

You're right, I adjusted the necro a bit since I posted it. Idea is the same though, and it is supposed to be a support build

. Not sure why you think the Hayda build is questionable, for me it has worked great so far though you're probably in right that its not really optimal in a 2 paragon team instead of the 3 I run. Not claiming that its anything special but I did Frostmaw's Dungeon on HM the other day with this setup (full H/H) and it worked well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warskull

I would avoid most of the other paragon builds posted so far.

No offense but you're build doesnt seem that amazing. It only offers protection against physical damage and no healing at all. As far as motivation being crap defense, its not used for more defense its used for condition removal and healing. In the harder areas that can be done with full H/H (Hardmode Elite Dungeons for example) the only healing coming from the two hench monks may not always be enough. Plus you might want to tell him he has to control the Defensive Anthems manually or the heroes will overlap them alot (since they dont alternate like npc's do with aegis or charge). Last, Anthem of Flame + Blazing Spear has pretty terrible synergy.

And I know this is guru but maybe we should stick to our own builds instead of talk smack on eachothers' and let the OP decide what he likes

.

Omniclasm · Oct 31, 2007, 01:28 AM // 01:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trx

You're right, I adjusted the necro a bit since I posted it. Idea is the same though, and it is supposed to be a support build

. Not sure why you think the Hayda build is questionable, for me it has worked great so far though you're probably in right that its not really optimal in a 2 paragon team instead of the 3 I run. Not claiming that its anything special but I did Frostmaw's Dungeon on HM the other day with this setup (full H/H) and it worked well.

No offense but you're build doesnt seem that amazing. It only offers protection against physical damage and no healing at all. As far as motivation being crap defense, its not used for more defense its used for condition removal and healing. In the harder areas that can be done with full H/H (Hardmode Elite Dungeons for example) the only healing coming from the two hench monks may not always be enough. Plus you might want to tell him he has to control the Defensive Anthems manually or the heroes will overlap them alot (since they dont alternate like npc's do with aegis or charge). Last, Anthem of Flame + Blazing Spear has pretty terrible synergy.

Pure support builds usually are not that effective. Only 9 spear with no attack skills isn't really optimal. After all of the nerfs to motivation, building a whole entire bar around it is sub optimal. I would atleast drop the signet and the stance for a couple attack skills, and go 11/10/10 attributes. I am aware that with multiple Paragons, the other skills become even more effective, but yeah. Song of Purification is only useful where conditions are heavy, otherwise better off taking something else, such as Cruel Spear.

As for Warskulls builds, they are actually pretty good.

Edit: Not talking smack m8, just trying to help.

Whiskeyjack · Oct 31, 2007, 01:41 AM // 01:41

Quote:

No offense but you're build doesnt seem that amazing. It only offers protection against physical damage and no healing at all. As far as motivation being crap defense, its not used for more defense its used for condition removal and healing. In the harder areas that can be done with full H/H (Hardmode Elite Dungeons for example) the only healing coming from the two hench monks may not always be enough. Plus you might want to tell him he has to control the Defensive Anthems manually or the heroes will overlap them alot (since they dont alternate like npc's do with aegis or charge). Last, Anthem of Flame + Blazing Spear has pretty terrible synergy.

And I know this is guru but maybe we should stick to our own builds instead of talk smack on eachothers' and let the OP decide what he likes

Although Warskull may have put it indelicatley he does kind of have a point. Paragon's are pretty bad at healing even in a support role, and if your monks really are struggling the chances are that what little healing support a para can provide will not be enough. Warskull's bars are at least pretty solid as a template, they provide good dmg prevention(more important than healing in my view) combined with decent damage, i dare say his monks are going to have an easier time of it than yours. Please don't take this as an attack on you, just my opinion.

Longasc · Oct 31, 2007, 08:07 AM // 08:07

I would lower spears by 1 on Warskull's build, to get 9 Command/Tactics to get full AL from shields. As long as the mobs do not cast weakness on them at least.

Dual Defensive Anthem is a nice idea, it would work very well with casters like Fire Elementalists and "They are on Fire".

As a Necro I prefer to use lots of physical attackers of all kind, so the effect would go a bit poof. But I have other chars than a necro, after all. Next time I am out with my Elementalist char I could bring a Paragon to add an element on constant physical DPS + protection for my rather fragile elementalists.

hotman · Oct 31, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trx

[skill]Spear of Lightning[/skill]

[skill]Focused Anger[/skill][skill]"For Great Justice!"[/skill]

[skill]Anthem of Flame[/skill][skill]Aggressive Refrain[/skill][skill]Signet of Return[/skill]

As you can see all the AL bonus I need comes from "Save Yourselves!". You could add "Stand Your Ground!" on Morghan to somewhat make up for not having that.

There's lots of variations you can do with a setup like this but this is what works well for me. With only 3 squishies (who have +100AL most of the time lol) in the team and plenty of healing/condition removal its a solid setup that works well except in areas with lots of blocking stances but you could adjust the builds for those areas. And in Prophecies you just take Little Thom

.

Why use FGJ and Focused Anger, it does not incease adren gain. I would use serpents quickness over it or something else, but not FGJ

hotman · Oct 31, 2007, 01:54 PM // 13:54

double post sorry, my computer lagged

Racthoh · Oct 31, 2007, 01:58 PM // 13:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotman

Why use FGJ and Focused Anger, it does not incease adren gain. I would use serpents quickness over it or something else, but not FGJ

You use one after the other to maintain Save Yourselves! all the time.

Sab · Oct 31, 2007, 03:11 PM // 15:11

Go with Warskull's builds. The only things I'd change are the attributes to 11/10/10 for a Command/Tactics shield. Use a Major rune to hit the 12 Leadership breakpoint for DA.

Motivation Paras on the whole aren't very good, they spend half their time casting chants and the other half throwing out weak autoattacks. If you want a character that's half offense, half defense, bring a Rit with Offering/Splinter/Ancestor's/Mend Body.

I wouldn't use any other builds posted in this thread without some major modifications as they contain some bad skill choices.

Kyp Jade · Oct 31, 2007, 05:32 PM // 17:32

Motivation Paragons are bad? What? Ok, Ill just take my motivation setup and run into mobs and use spear attacks and my moti shouts and watch no one die, spear of lightning really is underrated, and holy spear is WOW!

Just got Legendary Survivor with this method of killing to, im to lazy to pull, and paragons support my c-space mentality in pve.

Omniclasm · Oct 31, 2007, 05:47 PM // 17:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyp Jade

Motivation Paragons are bad? What? Ok, Ill just take my motivation setup and run into mobs and use spear attacks and my moti shouts and watch no one die, spear of lightning really is underrated, and holy spear is WOW!

Just got Legendary Survivor with this method of killing to, im to lazy to pull, and paragons support my c-space mentality in pve.

A few motivation skills on a bar is ok, it is what I use myself. However, a whole entire skill bar with nothing but motivation skills is bad.

Warskull · Nov 01, 2007, 01:36 AM // 01:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Longasc

I would lower spears by 1 on Warskull's build, to get 9 Command/Tactics to get full AL from shields. As long as the mobs do not cast weakness on them at least.

Dual Defensive Anthem is a nice idea, it would work very well with casters like Fire Elementalists and "They are on Fire".

As a Necro I prefer to use lots of physical attackers of all kind, so the effect would go a bit poof. But I have other chars than a necro, after all. Next time I am out with my Elementalist char I could bring a Paragon to add an element on constant physical DPS + protection for my rather fragile elementalists.

That's a fair stat swap if you want the shields. 12 leadership and high spear mastery are the important points. I don't bother with the shields because GftE is good even mid spec and paragons actually don't need more than +8 armor from the shield.

Ben-A-BoO · Nov 04, 2007, 11:14 AM // 11:14

Hey,
Nice ideas in warskull's build.
I worked "Flail" in my own paragons bar and am amazed how good that works!

After testing the build I encountered several problems though:

- My Paragon Heroes don't like to use "flail" as often as they should.
- Defensive Anthem needs a lot of micro management since they both cast their at the same time.
To double synch the 9 sec effect time and the 2 second cast by micro managing is kinda annoying.

For the shields: keep your eyes open for inscriptable "blues" with a req 7 or 8.